We just finished a call for a local pair of clients. Two houses shared a common lateral sewer pipe run to the city mainline sewer in the city of Escondido, Ca. We were called to provide a bid on a sewer pipe liner to repair a seriously deteriorated pipe. The whole problem started with a back up as you would expect. The previous plumber had shot and provided a DVD to the homeowners of the problem pipe run. He told them that the pipe was seriously deteriorated and that the bottom was rotted out. I took a look at his video hoping to be able to use it to provide an accurate bid and save me the trouble of running my own camera. Well I was a bit surprised. I looked at the video and it showed that the pipe was full of heavy debris and that the pipe walls were heavily encrusted with scale and grease build up. It was no wonder that they were having backup issues. It was really ugly. The pipe was probably 50% to 60% blocked up with sludgy debris and large grease and pipe scale deposits. All a cable machine could ever hope to do would be to poke a temporary hole in a blockage. Not only that but because of the large amount of debris in the pipe, it was impossible to make any kind of an accurate determination of the condition of the pipe wall itself. It was a joke, the previous plumber is describing rotted out pipe to the customer and there was nothing on the video that backed that up. I can see how a customer doesn't understand that because he isn't used to looking at a pipe video, especially one that has a tremendous amount of debris in the pipe. I'm hoping to post the before and after videos on our website in future. http://www.superjetdrains.com/
I had a long talk with the two customers in front of the computer monitor as we watched the video and told them that my concerns were that the cost of a liner wasn't justified yet. A CCIP liner for the distance involved would be in the neighborhood of $4,000. I recommended a hydro jetting of the line to clean all the debris out and possibly remove a great deal of the pipe scale and blistering. It was an easy sell because the first step in installing a liner would be to hydro jett the line in preparation for the lining. I told them that after a careful cleaning, we would have a much better idea of what is actually going on. Based on what I saw on the video, there was a good chance that we would correct their problem with the jetting alone. It was $700 for the hydro jetting vs. $4,000 minimum for a sewer liner install. Well we hydro jetted carefully and thoroughly. We would hydro jet then camera then hydro jet and then camera again. We did this about 4 times before we were done. It was absolutely amazing the difference in the pipe. We completely cleaned out all the debris and were able to make the pipe walls round again removing the bulk of the heavy buildup of grease and pipe scale. The pipe went from about 40% to 95+%. The final video also revealed that there weren't any holes in the cast iron pipe at all and that there was a low spot or belly in the line which was clearly a repair that had been done in the street most likely by the city. This was all clearly visible on the video since the line had been hydro jetted.
If your plumber isn't able to clearly show you the actual physical problem on the video screen, be careful. It never hurts to get a second opinion and always be leery of anyone that says "you have to do this now!"
Friday, February 26, 2010
Thursday, February 18, 2010
Area and Landscape drain cleaning do's and don'ts
Ok, for those of you that aren't aware of it, there is a huge difference between standard plumbing drains and pipes that you find inside a building and the area or landscape drains that you typically find on the exterior. First of all, when your in the home improvement store, take a look at the plastic pipe that is used for exterior area drains. It is much thinner and more flexible than what you will find designed for code acceptable plumbing installations. Also you need to look at the fittings that are used in the area / landscape drains. You will find that hard ninety degree turn fittings are common. These two charectaristics are the kiss of death and make it very difficult to run a cable machine in an area drain line without punching a hole in the pipe. Its a catch 22, if you run a smaller machine that won't punch a hole, it's not big or powerful enough to do any good with the roots. If you run the monster machine, your going to punch right through the back of the thinner plastic on the ninety degree turn fitting and probably bury the cable into the dirt. We see this all the time. We ( SuperJet Sewer and Drain Cleaning ) are always getting called out to try and fix the mess someone else created. If the cable gets buried in the dirt your most likely not going to able to retrieve it without digging up the problem area and if that's under concrete it's going to be expensive.
Another wonderful thing I have noticed is that many of the exterior drain installers don't even use glue to put the pipe joints together. It's just a tight pressure fit. It's crazy. Small amounts of water leak through these joints and it is a dinner bell for roots. As soon as roots locate a source of water, a massive invasion is sure to follow. If your designing a landscape drainage system on a new house, make sure the plumber uses standard plumbing fixtures and pipe and this is the most important part; make sure they design the layout so that it can be cleaned. By that I mean that A leads to B and B leads to C and so on.
We got called out to a professional building that had an open air interior courtyard that was backed up and flooded from days of rain with no end to the weather. Roto Rooter had been out there for hours before us and wasnt able to diagnose the layout and told the owners that it would probably take a day more with a camera to figure things out. They couldn't determine which way the pipes were running so they could not find the outflow to attack the blockage. No wonder. We hydro jetted and quickly determined that one entire side of the courtyard ran from one side to the other. So when we went to side A and ran the line, the nozzle came up out of the ground at the other end at point B. When we went to B and ran the hose it came back up out of the ground at the other end back at A. What the contractor had done was run one long pipe run with a "T" fitting in the middle of the run for the outflow to drain the run. Absolutely crazy, you can't clean the line. A cable or a hydro jetting nozzle just runs past the outflow point because the pipe run isn't directing the machinery toward the outflow. It took a careful camera inspection and alot of clear flushing water to find the outflow point. The whole place was just more and more of the same. It was absolutely a nightmare and the layout was put into the ground without a chance in hell of anyone ever being able to clean it without extroidinary measures.
This brings me to my next point. We see this all the time as well. Pipe runs where the outflow from the run comes off in a T and no chance of directing line cleaning equipment into the outflow to open blockages. Take a look at a "T" area drain fitting at the home improvement store and you'll have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. If your installing a drain system, don't let your contractor do this to you.
The next thing to keep in mind is that the majority of the time the area drains are impacted with roots and dirt. Dirt is heavy and when it's wet it's like concrete. Run a cable into this and more often than not you will get stuck big time. Get ready to dig. A much better alternative is to Hydro Jet the debris out of the line. Hydro Jetting uses high pressure water at very high volumes to shred the vegetation and put all the dirt up into suspension in the water allowing it to be flushed out of the line. SuperJet uses full size jetters that achieve high pressure with high volume of water flow. The high volume is critical to flushing the debris out once it has been loosened. Alot of companies will say they have jetters and they do jetting and on and on. Be sharp and ask questions. You want a full size machine ie. 4,000 psi at 18 gallons per minute. The smaller cart type jetters don't produce the volume of flow needed to flush the heavy debris out of the pipe. And your better off with a company that specializes in drain cleaning with a hydro jetter. If it's all you do day in and day out, you get very good at it.
The other thing to keep in mind is that high pressure water will not harm your plastic pipes.
Its a pretty amazing process. Don't forget to check out our video on our website. We shred a chicken in 43 seconds flat. http://www.superjetdrains.com/ and if your in Southern California, give us a call.
Superjet Hydro Jetting Sewer and Drain Cleaning, were the ones that know what were doing.
Another wonderful thing I have noticed is that many of the exterior drain installers don't even use glue to put the pipe joints together. It's just a tight pressure fit. It's crazy. Small amounts of water leak through these joints and it is a dinner bell for roots. As soon as roots locate a source of water, a massive invasion is sure to follow. If your designing a landscape drainage system on a new house, make sure the plumber uses standard plumbing fixtures and pipe and this is the most important part; make sure they design the layout so that it can be cleaned. By that I mean that A leads to B and B leads to C and so on.
We got called out to a professional building that had an open air interior courtyard that was backed up and flooded from days of rain with no end to the weather. Roto Rooter had been out there for hours before us and wasnt able to diagnose the layout and told the owners that it would probably take a day more with a camera to figure things out. They couldn't determine which way the pipes were running so they could not find the outflow to attack the blockage. No wonder. We hydro jetted and quickly determined that one entire side of the courtyard ran from one side to the other. So when we went to side A and ran the line, the nozzle came up out of the ground at the other end at point B. When we went to B and ran the hose it came back up out of the ground at the other end back at A. What the contractor had done was run one long pipe run with a "T" fitting in the middle of the run for the outflow to drain the run. Absolutely crazy, you can't clean the line. A cable or a hydro jetting nozzle just runs past the outflow point because the pipe run isn't directing the machinery toward the outflow. It took a careful camera inspection and alot of clear flushing water to find the outflow point. The whole place was just more and more of the same. It was absolutely a nightmare and the layout was put into the ground without a chance in hell of anyone ever being able to clean it without extroidinary measures.
This brings me to my next point. We see this all the time as well. Pipe runs where the outflow from the run comes off in a T and no chance of directing line cleaning equipment into the outflow to open blockages. Take a look at a "T" area drain fitting at the home improvement store and you'll have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. If your installing a drain system, don't let your contractor do this to you.
The next thing to keep in mind is that the majority of the time the area drains are impacted with roots and dirt. Dirt is heavy and when it's wet it's like concrete. Run a cable into this and more often than not you will get stuck big time. Get ready to dig. A much better alternative is to Hydro Jet the debris out of the line. Hydro Jetting uses high pressure water at very high volumes to shred the vegetation and put all the dirt up into suspension in the water allowing it to be flushed out of the line. SuperJet uses full size jetters that achieve high pressure with high volume of water flow. The high volume is critical to flushing the debris out once it has been loosened. Alot of companies will say they have jetters and they do jetting and on and on. Be sharp and ask questions. You want a full size machine ie. 4,000 psi at 18 gallons per minute. The smaller cart type jetters don't produce the volume of flow needed to flush the heavy debris out of the pipe. And your better off with a company that specializes in drain cleaning with a hydro jetter. If it's all you do day in and day out, you get very good at it.
The other thing to keep in mind is that high pressure water will not harm your plastic pipes.
Its a pretty amazing process. Don't forget to check out our video on our website. We shred a chicken in 43 seconds flat. http://www.superjetdrains.com/ and if your in Southern California, give us a call.
Superjet Hydro Jetting Sewer and Drain Cleaning, were the ones that know what were doing.
Never Never Never sign a lease or buy a building without a sewer inspection.
I can't tell you how many customers I have that are just sick. They hold leases on their restaurants or buildings and they come to find out that they have major sewer or drain line problems that have clearly been there prior to their move in. Unfortunately most commercial leases that I am aware of make the tenant responsible for all the drains and sewer lines within the building up to the mainline tie in outside of the building. I have a sweet lady, we'll call her Edith. She has been in this restaurant space for 6 or 7 years and she has constantly had to fight various drain problems. We have smoke tested her place several times on different occassions because of very strong sewer gas leaks within the building. We found degraded vent pipes in the walls and in the drop ceiling. These sections of degraded pipe allowed sewer gas to enter the building and it was affecting her business in a big way. We find and fix her problems when they pop up but there is a cost. The cost of the test, sometimes the walls have to be opened then repaired and then there is the business lost. That's just the vent pipes.
She also has regular sewer line backup issues because of degraded cast iron lines. Some lines are old and very rough. Sometimes this can be helped a bit with hydro jetting. Hydro Jetting with a large powerful machine can smooth out this rough pipe to some extent but if the pipe is getting thin with age or worse yet has holes in it, there isn't alot you can do short of major repair. The repair costs for what Edith is facing are easily in the ballpark of $6,000 plus. All this falls on her because of the way the lease is written. Take a look at the following link that shows a video of a seriously cracked sewer pipe that runs just under the corner of an apartment building.
http://www.superjetdrains.com/videos.php
We were able to line it with a cured in place pipe liner. If we had to excavate things would have been very expensive.
I would strongly recommend to anyone who is considering buying any sort of a building or leasing a property that they perform a camera inspection of the sewer and accessible drain lines. I would suggest a sewer and drain expert or specialist as opposed to just a run of the mill plumber. The specialist is going to have a much better understanding of what there looking at because it's all they do. If your in Southern California, give us a call. SuperJet Sewer and Drain Cleaing. SuperJetDrains.com It is what we do.
A visual inspection will quickly locate problems like a severe belly or low spot in a line that acts as a collection spot for debris. These are very often the cause of repeated backups. These cant be fixed short of digging it up and repairing it. ( We just did a diagnosis inspection of a beautiful house worth over a million dollars with a wide open floor plan and a long span across the house covered in beautiful stonework. The sewer line runs across the house under this same stonework and is plauged with multiple low spots or bellies in the line that regularly cause backups. The only way to fix this is to dig it up and regrade the pipe run. His only other option is to hire us on a regular basis to do a preventative maintenance with Hydro Jetting the sewer line.)
The other thing that comes to mind is that now many cities are making the homeowner responsible for the entire sewer lateral that runs from their house all the way to the cites mainline tie in point in the street. This is serious stuff. If you have a problem in that run after it hits the street, the cost to repair can be huge. A common number for a repair in the street with all it's additional issues, permits, certifications and costs can go $30,000+ very quickly. Think about that for a minute. How many houses or properties have you bought and did you ever do a sewer inspection?
One last thought, I do this for a living. About 50% of the time when we run a camera to inspect a line for whatever reason, we find a problem.
She also has regular sewer line backup issues because of degraded cast iron lines. Some lines are old and very rough. Sometimes this can be helped a bit with hydro jetting. Hydro Jetting with a large powerful machine can smooth out this rough pipe to some extent but if the pipe is getting thin with age or worse yet has holes in it, there isn't alot you can do short of major repair. The repair costs for what Edith is facing are easily in the ballpark of $6,000 plus. All this falls on her because of the way the lease is written. Take a look at the following link that shows a video of a seriously cracked sewer pipe that runs just under the corner of an apartment building.
http://www.superjetdrains.com/videos.php
We were able to line it with a cured in place pipe liner. If we had to excavate things would have been very expensive.
I would strongly recommend to anyone who is considering buying any sort of a building or leasing a property that they perform a camera inspection of the sewer and accessible drain lines. I would suggest a sewer and drain expert or specialist as opposed to just a run of the mill plumber. The specialist is going to have a much better understanding of what there looking at because it's all they do. If your in Southern California, give us a call. SuperJet Sewer and Drain Cleaing. SuperJetDrains.com It is what we do.
A visual inspection will quickly locate problems like a severe belly or low spot in a line that acts as a collection spot for debris. These are very often the cause of repeated backups. These cant be fixed short of digging it up and repairing it. ( We just did a diagnosis inspection of a beautiful house worth over a million dollars with a wide open floor plan and a long span across the house covered in beautiful stonework. The sewer line runs across the house under this same stonework and is plauged with multiple low spots or bellies in the line that regularly cause backups. The only way to fix this is to dig it up and regrade the pipe run. His only other option is to hire us on a regular basis to do a preventative maintenance with Hydro Jetting the sewer line.)
The other thing that comes to mind is that now many cities are making the homeowner responsible for the entire sewer lateral that runs from their house all the way to the cites mainline tie in point in the street. This is serious stuff. If you have a problem in that run after it hits the street, the cost to repair can be huge. A common number for a repair in the street with all it's additional issues, permits, certifications and costs can go $30,000+ very quickly. Think about that for a minute. How many houses or properties have you bought and did you ever do a sewer inspection?
One last thought, I do this for a living. About 50% of the time when we run a camera to inspect a line for whatever reason, we find a problem.
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